Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
34
I saw someoen say something about Dog Tags in a random thread. Related to fixing Sec hits.
Does anyone know what that was about? Specific dog tags? I can't see just any Dog tag working, Electrum drop at 50K a day.
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
487
Sisohiv wrote:
I saw someoen say something about Dog Tags in a random thread. Related to fixing Sec hits.
Does anyone know what that was about? Specific dog tags? I can't see just any Dog tag working, Electrum drop at 50K a day.
Yah, the Devs said they would like to work in a feature in the future sometime (on paper and not in production yet) whereby commander (Dread Gurristas, Shadow Serpentis, Domination, Dark Blood, etc... NOT vanilla Gurristas, Serpentis, Angels etc...) tags and Officer Tags (Estamel, Thon, etc...) and use them to increase your sec status from -10 to +5. You can read it from CCP Greyscale here. Probably why dog tags have risen a bit in price...
I asked myself a while ago:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Gogela wrote:
What is meant by "officer/commander" tags? Is it only the named officers like Estamel, Gotan, and Thon or do you get some positive bumper for navy or pirate tags? What are we talking about here... will I be able to buy my way out of a -10? 
Officers are Estamel, Thon et al. Commanders are Dread Guristas, Dark Bloods, True Sanshas etc. Yes, you'll be able to buy your way up, but we'll probably balance it so that it's gonna cost you 
Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦
GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
35
Tags are a messy business. They don't price in Jita the way other stuff does because a copper tag and a commander diamond reproc to the same 5 Noc/ 2 Isogen so they are very much tied to thier player use.
They also don't drop the same. You can't find a Dread Guristas Electrum but as I said, a tier 7 Electrum comes in 50K a day for reproc rates. On other fronts, Dread Guristas Brass fly through Jita at 10K a week for less ISK than a single Guristas Brass.
I made my fortune on tags when the LP store came in because prior to that they were all 2K ISK reproc junk, so I keep an eye on them. I don't have the stocks I had for that boon and sec repair isn't as in demand as the LP modules but it will be intersting to see what they do with them.
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
488
Sisohiv wrote:
Tags are a messy business. They don't price in Jita the way other stuff does because a copper tag and a commander diamond reproc to the same 5 Noc/ 2 Isogen so they are very much tied to thier player use.
They also don't drop the same. You can't find a Dread Guristas Electrum but as I said, a tier 7 Electrum comes in 50K a day for reproc rates. On other fronts, Dread Guristas Brass fly through Jita at 10K a week for less ISK than a single Guristas Brass.
I made my fortune on tags when the LP store came in because prior to that they were all 2K ISK reproc junk, so I keep an eye on them. I don't have the stocks I had for that boon and sec repair isn't as in demand as the LP modules but it will be intersting to see what they do with them.
Well... I mean why do you need a commander bounty at all, if the tag he drops is worth more to pirates trying to get their sec up? That's the genius of the system CCP Greyscale is talking about imho. 1) It gets rid of sec grinding, which a lot of us -10 people do in no way for isk or mins. It's just grinding. 2) It removes or at the very least mitigates the need for NPC bounties because you make so much from the tags... and that ISK comes from players! It greatly reduces the giant ISK faucet that are bounties (3-4x more isk from bounties than from incursions coming into the game) 3) Since -10's don't have to grind sec out, we won't, and that means even fewer people collecting bounties. This is a boost for people who make a living ratting. Everybody wins!
Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦
GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
35
I actually thought about that a while ago but kind of kept my mouth shut.
Instead of Bounties, 50/50 tags and bounty the tag. If they have a player use and value, the players can compete with the bounty system and the faucet system. I don't know if I like the idea though just because it would have a massive impact on faucets and tag based productions.
As for commander tag values, it would have a use and that's a step in the right direction. I just want to see a competition for that use. As someone else suggested, no competition commander tags mean you can sec rep for 100K with current rates on those tags.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
786
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=980076#post980076
Quote:
Officers are Estamel, Thon et al. Commanders are Dread Guristas, Dark Bloods, True Sanshas etc. Yes, you'll be able to buy your way up, but we'll probably balance it so that it's gonna cost you Smile
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
488
I sure agree with that. It will have a massive impact... but I think it will be really good for everyone. In fact it could save us from a possible collapse... if DUST ramps the EvE playerbase up than ratting and incursioning is going to get really out of hand and cause hyperinflation. If they tackle the faucet problem with the tags/sec status idea and nerf bounties a bit it will cause more fighting as pirates come out of null and lowsec to use the new wardec system and kill people which will in turn lead to increased production at non-inflated prices. win - win - win - win... everyone wins.
Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦
GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Sky Liddell
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
Gogela wrote:
I sure agree with that. It will have a massive impact... but I think it will be really good for everyone. In fact it could save us from a possible collapse... if DUST ramps the EvE playerbase up than ratting and incursioning is going to get really out of hand and cause hyperinflation. If they tackle the faucet problem with the tags/sec status idea and nerf bounties a bit it will cause more fighting as pirates come out of null and lowsec to use the new wardec system and kill people which will in turn lead to increased production at non-inflated prices. win - win - win - win... everyone wins.
High Sec drops Corpii tags, low and Null drop what we have now. No tag, no bounty. At 50% drop on tags, that leaves a huge hole in the faucet. If anything they would need to put the tag bounty a little higher out of the gate because of the lower drop ratio.
1 mill Bounty is now 50% so make it an 1.6 Mill tag. It works out to 800K per kill.
Missions could be handed stubs. You have Tier 1 to 4 stubs and they act as pay stubs. Cash in your stubs to whatever you want. LP, ISK, bounty tags for rep.
They did say they wanted to shake it at the foundation.
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
488
Sky Liddell wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I sure agree with that. It will have a massive impact... but I think it will be really good for everyone. In fact it could save us from a possible collapse... if DUST ramps the EvE playerbase up than ratting and incursioning is going to get really out of hand and cause hyperinflation. If they tackle the faucet problem with the tags/sec status idea and nerf bounties a bit it will cause more fighting as pirates come out of null and lowsec to use the new wardec system and kill people which will in turn lead to increased production at non-inflated prices. win - win - win - win... everyone wins.
High Sec drops Corpii tags, low and Null drop what we have now. No tag, no bounty. At 50% drop on tags, that leaves a huge hole in the faucet. If anything they would need to put the tag bounty a little higher out of the gate because of the lower drop ratio.
1 mill Bounty is now 50% so make it an 1.6 Mill tag. It works out to 800K per kill.
Missions could be handed stubs. You have Tier 1 to 4 stubs and they act as pay stubs. Cash in your stubs to whatever you want. LP, ISK, bounty tags for rep.
They did say they wanted to shake it at the foundation.
Well that is a valid point too... and I'm not saying my way is the only way because I haven't worked out the details, but yah there would need to be adjustments to the entire tag system and how it factors into LP stores and such too. ...and yes shaking it to the foundation is inherently what's needed to do this.
Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦
GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
447
The trouble I see with the idea it stands now, just commander/officer is that it limits the usefulness of the tags where it comes to slowing down ISK faucets. Sisohiv is correct, the drops are too scattered all over the place, it's a big mess.
I would suggest every rat, regardless of security, high low or null, drop one tag based on the rank of the rat. And that each tag give a 1/10th reward, in sec status terms, of the rat from which the tag dropped.
That all existing rats have their own sec status reward also dropped by 90%. And lastly that the 15 minute delay between possible security status gains be removed.
This will create enough tags on the market for them to be widely available. Players wishing to improve their sec status may go out and hunt rats at roughly the same rate as now, or they may purchase the extra from the market. If it is discovered that there are too many tags and the market becomes over saturated, CCP can easily adjust the amount of security gained from tags with pretty much one line of code.
As for the mineral value of tags, it used to matter, if they can be used to save time, more time than would be gained by trying to collect those minerals by other means, then the value of the tags won't drop to mineral value anyway, and if that were to happen, the one line of code mentioned above fixes the issue.
Sky Liddell
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
1
Adunh Slavy wrote:
The trouble I see with the idea it stands now, just commander/officer is that it limits the usefulness of the tags where it comes to slowing down ISK faucets. Sisohiv is correct, the drops are too scattered all over the place, it's a big mess.
I would suggest every rat, regardless of security, high low or null, drop one tag based on the rank of the rat. And that each tag give a 1/10th reward, in sec status terms, of the rat from which the tag dropped.
That all existing rats have their own sec status reward also dropped by 90%. And lastly that the 15 minute delay between possible security status gains be removed.
This will create enough tags on the market for them to be widely available. Players wishing to improve their sec status may go out and hunt rats at roughly the same rate as now, or they may purchase the extra from the market. If it is discovered that there are too many tags and the market becomes over saturated, CCP can easily adjust the amount of security gained from tags with pretty much one line of code.
As for the mineral value of tags, it used to matter, if they can be used to save time, more time than would be gained by trying to collect those minerals by other means, then the value of the tags won't drop to mineral value anyway, and if that were to happen, the one line of code mentioned above fixes the issue.
Right now every tag in EVE has a use but 90% of that use is so esoteric and tied to other prerequisites they don't create demand. It's much like Storyline modules and thier BPC's. Those are easy to obtain. Good luck using them though.
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
447
Sky Liddell wrote:
Right now every tag in EVE has a use but 90% of that use is so esoteric and tied to other prerequisites they don't create demand. It's much like Storyline modules and thier BPC's. Those are easy to obtain. Good luck using them though.
Yep, I agree, but they are considering letting players use them to "buy" one's way back into Concord's good graces. The value they will carry is the time someone does not have to spend chasing around rats. That time savings will be able to have a price in ISK. Granted they are for the most part useless right now, unlock a few accel gates here and there and a few other silly things.
It is the time that low security status players will save, by not having to rat for sec status, that will give the tags their value.
-10 and want to go clean? Chase around rats for a few days or pay other players a few hundred million for thier tags and then turn them into concord at some low sec station.
Sky Liddell
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
3
Every miner in EVE could keep a tag in the same station as thier Hulk. Log in, check the price on thier tag and decide if they want to undock or not.
On that note, there would be somewhat of a competition for these by design if they allow for Sec rise to 5.00 as I also remember there being some special status granted to 5.00 sec chars in the criminal watch system. Depending on the mindset of the player, getting from 0.0 to 5.0 can have as much priority as getting from -5.0 to 0.0
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
496
Adunh Slavy wrote:
-10 and want to go clean? Chase around rats for a few days or pay other players a few hundred million for thier tags and then turn them into concord at some low sec station.
I'd pay a PLEX to go from -10 to +5. Right now. Lets do this.
Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦
GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Alexa Coates
The Scope
Gallente Federation
70
what about people with a sec higher than 5.0, like myself?Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships!
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
496
Alexa Coates wrote:
what about people with a sec higher than 5.0, like myself?
As I understand it there are no further effects of turning in these criminal tags beyond a +5.0 sec status. Take that with a grain of salt though... as CCP Greyscale (I believe) has stated, this is still all on paper and subject to change.
Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦
GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Saint Lazarus
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
199
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm245/insightmisguided/IMAG0016.jpg
My dogtags <3
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
498
Saint Lazarus wrote:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm245/insightmisguided/IMAG0016.jpg
My dogtags <3
That is f'n AWESOME. Turning in those tags should get you a +10, if there is any justice at all in this world.
Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦
GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Saint Lazarus
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
200
Gogela wrote:
Saint Lazarus wrote:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm245/insightmisguided/IMAG0016.jpg
My dogtags <3
That is f'n AWESOME. Turning in those tags should get you a +10, if there is any justice at all in this world.
Thankies, they were pretty cheap too!
You can order them off any Army surplus site, just tell'em what you want on them.
Less than 10 euro from what I remember, including postage. 3 of us from first corp got them
